Forklift Fundamentals Part 6: Fucktardedness

[Noddy]

Just when I thought I might me getting to the pointy end of fixing the
mess these country bumpkins with this tired old Fork of mine, I found
something new to get excited about today :)

To recap on the saga, the previous fucktarded owners had been chasing a
head gasket issue, and they'd been chasing it with a fucking big
grinder. Presumably thinking the block was warped, they'd cut the crap
out of the head gasket face to "square it up" and in doing so created a
mechanical interference issue that was only making the matter worse. So
I address that thinking that it would solve the problem.

But no.

Yesterday afternoon when I was looking over some stuff and getting
things ready to be cleaned up and start going back together I got the
pistons and rods out to give them the once over as I hadn't really
examined them in detail and only pulled them out and chucked them in a
cardboard box. Not that you could see much, as the carbon layer on them
was around half an inch thick.

So I hit them with the wire buff, and all four of them have valve

https://ibb.co/qNsLwcx

You'll see such marks on occasion with a timing belt failure, but not on
all four pistons as either the crank or cam won't spin through enough
cycles to get contact on every piston. So I checked the valves. Chucked
them in the valve refacer and the 4 exhaust valves were relatively new
and machined up nice, but 3 of the 4 inlets had issues :)

https://ibb.co/ns2vdG2

Clearly there's a problem somewhere. Better check the deck height.

Uh-oh :)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GBbj1AfTIc8

A quick vid of the engine with one piston & rod in it being rotated over

https://ibb.co/sRkvgg0
https://ibb.co/JxSdXGt

As it turns out, the piston height protrusion should be zero, but is
about 18 thousandths in the positive, which is around what they milled
off the top of the block to try to cure the head gasket issue that
they'd created for themselves. I haven't checked the piston to valve
clearance yet as I need to assemble a couple of valves into the head
casting and put the cam & rocker gear back together, but given that it
has 3 bent inlet valves and a full set of marked up pistons I'm tipping
that it has a clearance issue :)

A short vid of one of the three inlet valves being checked in my lathe
chuck. All three were the same.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/81dXwIGRWgg

These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I have
to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like shit, but
given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on 3 cylinders
I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this, and we all
know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a bent valve from

https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB

You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.
--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Xeno]

Post by Noddy
Just when I thought I might me getting to the pointy end of fixing the
mess these country bumpkins with this tired old Fork of mine, I found
something new to get excited about today :)
To recap on the saga, the previous fucktarded owners had been chasing a
head gasket issue, and they'd been chasing it with a fucking big
grinder. Presumably thinking the block was warped, they'd cut the crap
out of the head gasket face to "square it up" and in doing so created a
mechanical interference issue that was only making the matter worse. So
I address that thinking that it would solve the problem.
But no.
Yesterday afternoon when I was looking over some stuff and getting
things ready to be cleaned up and start going back together I got the
pistons and rods out to give them the once over as I hadn't really
examined them in detail and only pulled them out and chucked them in a
cardboard box. Not that you could see much, as the carbon layer on them
was around half an inch thick.
So I hit them with the wire buff, and all four of them have valve

https://ibb.co/qNsLwcx

You'll see such marks on occasion with a timing belt failure, but not on
all four pistons as either the crank or cam won't spin through enough
cycles to get contact on every piston. So I checked the valves. Chucked
them in the valve refacer and the 4 exhaust valves were relatively new
and machined up nice, but 3 of the 4 inlets had issues :)

https://ibb.co/ns2vdG2

Clearly there's a problem somewhere. Better check the deck height.
Uh-oh :)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GBbj1AfTIc8

A quick vid of the engine with one piston & rod in it being rotated over

https://ibb.co/sRkvgg0
https://ibb.co/JxSdXGt

As it turns out, the piston height protrusion should be zero, but is
about 18 thousandths in the positive, which is around what they milled
off the top of the block to try to cure the head gasket issue that
they'd created for themselves. I haven't checked the piston to valve
clearance yet as I need to assemble a couple of valves into the head
casting and put the cam & rocker gear back together, but given that it
has 3 bent inlet valves and a full set of marked up pistons I'm tipping
that it has a clearance issue :)
A short vid of one of the three inlet valves being checked in my lathe
chuck. All three were the same.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/81dXwIGRWgg

These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I have
to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like shit, but
given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on 3 cylinders
I'm surprised it ran at all :)
Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this, and we all
know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a bent valve from

https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB

You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.

Low revving industrial engine Darren. Not a high performance engine,
like the 4AGE(20), revving at over it's max top gear RPM and getting
lots of valve lofting happening. Almost forgot, you have *intake valves*
that are bent. Hate to break it to you Darren but intake valves are *air
cooled* (funny that!) and are still being cooled by the intake air flow
on every intake stroke when the valves are open. That is the exact
opposite of the exhaust valves that need every bit of cooling they can
get as *80% of the heat* they pick up from combustion has to be passed
through the valve seats to the cooling system. Dick with the seating of
the exhaust valve (by high rev bending of the valve head) and the heat
buildup will be rapid and destructive. Unlike the intake valves, the hot
exhaust gases are always passing through when the exhaust valves are
open plus they are passing through the seat when the valves are closed
and sealing is compromised.

Your attempt to belittle me just backfired on you Darren, you insecure
little twat! You really don't understand this shit, do you? I guess
that's the reason you could never get any apprenticeship ever. These are
simple mechanical and thermal concepts and you just don't get it!

But I love seeing how I get under your skin! That really gladdens my old
heart! Now, if you will excuse me, I'm going off to have a good old laugh!

[Daryl]

Post by Noddy
Just when I thought I might me getting to the pointy end of fixing the
mess these country bumpkins with this tired old Fork of mine, I found
something new to get excited about today :)
To recap on the saga, the previous fucktarded owners had been chasing a
head gasket issue, and they'd been chasing it with a fucking big
grinder. Presumably thinking the block was warped, they'd cut the crap
out of the head gasket face to "square it up" and in doing so created a
mechanical interference issue that was only making the matter worse. So
I address that thinking that it would solve the problem.
But no.
Yesterday afternoon when I was looking over some stuff and getting
things ready to be cleaned up and start going back together I got the
pistons and rods out to give them the once over as I hadn't really
examined them in detail and only pulled them out and chucked them in a
cardboard box. Not that you could see much, as the carbon layer on them
was around half an inch thick.
So I hit them with the wire buff, and all four of them have valve

https://ibb.co/qNsLwcx

You'll see such marks on occasion with a timing belt failure, but not on
all four pistons as either the crank or cam won't spin through enough
cycles to get contact on every piston. So I checked the valves. Chucked
them in the valve refacer and the 4 exhaust valves were relatively new
and machined up nice, but 3 of the 4 inlets had issues :)

https://ibb.co/ns2vdG2

Clearly there's a problem somewhere. Better check the deck height.
Uh-oh :)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GBbj1AfTIc8

A quick vid of the engine with one piston & rod in it being rotated over

LOL, just a bit of an issue:-)

Post by Noddy

https://ibb.co/sRkvgg0
https://ibb.co/JxSdXGt

As it turns out, the piston height protrusion should be zero, but is
about 18 thousandths in the positive, which is around what they milled
off the top of the block to try to cure the head gasket issue that
they'd created for themselves. I haven't checked the piston to valve
clearance yet as I need to assemble a couple of valves into the head
casting and put the cam & rocker gear back together, but given that it
has 3 bent inlet valves and a full set of marked up pistons I'm tipping
that it has a clearance issue :)
A short vid of one of the three inlet valves being checked in my lathe
chuck. All three were the same.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/81dXwIGRWgg

These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I have
to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like shit, but
given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on 3 cylinders
I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Some engines just refuse to die regardless of how badly they are treated.
Have you decided on a cure, machine the pistons, different pistons or a
thicker head gasket?

Post by Noddy
Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this, and we all
know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a bent valve from

https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB

You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.

ROTFL.

[Xeno]

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
Just when I thought I might me getting to the pointy end of fixing the
mess these country bumpkins with this tired old Fork of mine, I found
something new to get excited about today :)
To recap on the saga, the previous fucktarded owners had been chasing
a head gasket issue, and they'd been chasing it with a fucking big
grinder. Presumably thinking the block was warped, they'd cut the crap
out of the head gasket face to "square it up" and in doing so created
a mechanical interference issue that was only making the matter worse.
So I address that thinking that it would solve the problem.
But no.
Yesterday afternoon when I was looking over some stuff and getting
things ready to be cleaned up and start going back together I got the
pistons and rods out to give them the once over as I hadn't really
examined them in detail and only pulled them out and chucked them in a
cardboard box. Not that you could see much, as the carbon layer on
them was around half an inch thick.
So I hit them with the wire buff, and all four of them have valve

https://ibb.co/qNsLwcx

You'll see such marks on occasion with a timing belt failure, but not
on all four pistons as either the crank or cam won't spin through
enough cycles to get contact on every piston. So I checked the valves.
Chucked them in the valve refacer and the 4 exhaust valves were
relatively new and machined up nice, but 3 of the 4 inlets had issues :)

https://ibb.co/ns2vdG2

Clearly there's a problem somewhere. Better check the deck height.
Uh-oh :)

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GBbj1AfTIc8

A quick vid of the engine with one piston & rod in it being rotated
over by hand to see if there's a mechanical clearance issue. Yep,

LOL, just a bit of an issue:-)

Post by Noddy

https://ibb.co/sRkvgg0
https://ibb.co/JxSdXGt

As it turns out, the piston height protrusion should be zero, but is
about 18 thousandths in the positive, which is around what they milled
off the top of the block to try to cure the head gasket issue that
they'd created for themselves. I haven't checked the piston to valve
clearance yet as I need to assemble a couple of valves into the head
casting and put the cam & rocker gear back together, but given that it
has 3 bent inlet valves and a full set of marked up pistons I'm
tipping that it has a clearance issue :)
A short vid of one of the three inlet valves being checked in my lathe
chuck. All three were the same.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/81dXwIGRWgg

These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I
have to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like
shit, but given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on
3 cylinders I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Some engines just refuse to die regardless of how badly they are treated.
Have you decided on a cure, machine the pistons, different pistons or a
thicker head gasket?

It already has a thicker *pretender* working on it. Keep your
expectations low.

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this, and we all
know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a bent valve from

https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB

You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.

ROTFL.

Such a pity it was Darren who needed to be *educated*.

[Noddy]

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I
have to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like
shit, but given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on
3 cylinders I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Some engines just refuse to die regardless of how badly they are treated.

Indeed. This is certainly one of them. I'm tempted to throw the whole
thing in the nearest dumpster and go buy a good running engine and use
that, but I've sort of reached the point where I feel sorry for the
thing and want to see it survive :)

Post by Daryl
Have you decided on a cure, machine the pistons, different pistons or a
thicker head gasket?

I think I'll just take 20 thousandths off the top of the pistons. They
have plenty of meat there, and this engine will be lucky if it gets much
past 2500rpm. I'll have to dummy the engine up and see how much valve
clearance it has. May need to cut in some clearance grooves as well.

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this, and we all
know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a bent valve from

https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB

You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.

ROTFL.

[Xeno]

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I
have to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like
shit, but given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on
3 cylinders I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Some engines just refuse to die regardless of how badly they are treated.

Indeed. This is certainly one of them. I'm tempted to throw the whole
thing in the nearest dumpster and go buy a good running engine and use

Best place for it rather than have you work on it.

Post by Noddy
that, but I've sort of reached the point where I feel sorry for the
thing and want to see it survive :)

You really mean you're so embarrassed by your repeated misdiagnoses on
it that you feel compelled to fix it. Don't you know how to do a
leakdown test? That would have told you where the issue was from the get go.

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl
Have you decided on a cure, machine the pistons, different pistons or
a thicker head gasket?

It's already got a thickhead working on it!

Post by Noddy
I think I'll just take 20 thousandths off the top of the pistons. They
have plenty of meat there, and this engine will be lucky if it gets much

Oh good, a hole through the top will be next!

Post by Noddy
past 2500rpm. I'll have to dummy the engine up and see how much valve

As a dummy yourself, that should be a doddle for you.

Post by Noddy
clearance it has. May need to cut in some clearance grooves as well.

Don't forget to allow for lofting! LOL That was where you screwed up
on Les' engine, remember? That said, lofting probably won't be an issue
on an RPM constrained engine. ;-)

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this, and we all
know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a bent valve from

https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB

You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.

ROTFL.

[Daryl]

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I
have to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like
shit, but given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on
3 cylinders I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Some engines just refuse to die regardless of how badly they are treated.

Indeed. This is certainly one of them. I'm tempted to throw the whole
thing in the nearest dumpster and go buy a good running engine and use
that, but I've sort of reached the point where I feel sorry for the
thing and want to see it survive :)

LOL.

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl
Have you decided on a cure, machine the pistons, different pistons or
a thicker head gasket?

I think I'll just take 20 thousandths off the top of the pistons. They
have plenty of meat there, and this engine will be lucky if it gets much
past 2500rpm. I'll have to dummy the engine up and see how much valve
clearance it has. May need to cut in some clearance grooves as well.

Sounds reasonable considering what it will be used for.

[Noddy]

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
I think I'll just take 20 thousandths off the top of the pistons. They
have plenty of meat there, and this engine will be lucky if it gets
much past 2500rpm. I'll have to dummy the engine up and see how much
valve clearance it has. May need to cut in some clearance grooves as
well.

Sounds reasonable considering what it will be used for.

It'll be fine. If I can find someone selling a 20 thosandth shim I'll
use one of those, but there doesn't seem to be too many people who
bother. At least not in Oz. There's some in the US, but I'd have the
pistons machined before it got here.

[Xeno]

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
I think I'll just take 20 thousandths off the top of the pistons.
They have plenty of meat there, and this engine will be lucky if it
gets much past 2500rpm. I'll have to dummy the engine up and see how

After you work on it, going past 2500 RPM will likely see the end of
that engine. Lucky it's only your *shed ornament* so will be unlikely to
see any serious work in its future.

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
much valve clearance it has. May need to cut in some clearance
grooves as well.

Sounds reasonable considering what it will be used for.

A shed ornament, a *garage queen*.

Post by Noddy
It'll be fine. If I can find someone selling a 20 thosandth shim I'll
use one of those, but there doesn't seem to be too many people who
bother. At least not in Oz. There's some in the US, but I'd have the
pistons machined before it got here.

Poor Darren, you have no idea why some valves (exhaust) over heat and
drop their heads - and why some valves (inlet) remain cool and are only
likely to drop their head if fatigue failed. Your problem Darren is that
you've never done any *training*. I guess that's how it runs when you
didn't qualify for any apprenticeship ever.

Now, had you ever done any *formal* apprentice training, you would have
learnt how systems and processes work. You know, like the combustion
processes in engines, their cooling systems, gas flow, and the like.
Your problem is that your knowledge is piecemeal, bits and pieces picked
up here and there, random, unstructured, lacking in coherence. That
becomes an issue when you need to diagnose faults Darren - like Les'
engine and the reasons behind it dropping that *exhaust* valve head.

Faulty valve you said! Bullshit I said. That little episode was fatal
for that particular engine but the next time you screw up a diagnosis
like that, guess what's going to happen? You'll get a vehicle back on
the road and the same fault - the *same* one that crippled it the first
time - is going to come back and make you look a right tool all over
again. All because you can't diagnose! You just *guess*. That's bad. Or
blame your incompetence on some mechanical component. That's worse!
That's why apprenticeships were invented - on the job training with
theory and practical experience helps tradesmen understand the
underlying principles of their trade, allows them to see the inner
workings of the machines they work on and, most importantly, work out
the stages of failure.

And then you post this and prove your lack of training and, more
importantly, lack of understanding.

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
Oh, and just for the mental case, if you're reading this,
and we all know you can't help yourself, *this* is what a
bent valve from insufficient piston to valve clearance
looks like.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/81dXwIGRWgg

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
https://ibb.co/HT2vYBB
You fucking clueless inbred fuckstain. Consider yourself educated.

And here comes the inevitable vitriol and invective. FWIW, I do consider
myself an educated person and you, with the above, just proved you were
an *uneducated person* firstly by resorting to invective and secondly by
being totally wrong in you summation of the *events* in both above
instances.

You showed an *inlet valve* in the chuck. Inlet valves typically run
100⁰C-200⁰C *cooler* than exhaust valves. Why? Because they are being
constantly cooled by incoming air on the *intake stroke*. Typical intake
*port* temperatures are in the order of 40⁰C - 60⁰C. Combustion chamber
temperatures can run as high as 2000C. By the time the exhaust gas gets
into the port it will have dropped to 800⁰C-900⁰C.

So, an intake valve is being *cooled* on the *intake* stroke*, It is
still being cooled by the seat and stem contact during the compression
stroke. the power stroke and the exhaust stroke. It is being heated by
combustion gases primarily on the power stroke. If an inlet valve is
bent and head to seat contact compromised, it will still be cooled on
the *compression* stroke by the unburnt fuel/air mixture leaking past
the valve seat. Overall then, intake valve temperature will be lower
than exhaust, even with impaired seat contact.

Exhaust valves, on the other hand, never have cool gas flowing past them
on the intake stroke, but they are being heated on the power stroke and
the exhaust stroke. 80% of heat transfer to the cooling system is
through the seat contact face and 20% through the valve guide. If you
get a bent valve head and compromise the cooling through the seat,
leaving only cooling through the stem. The valve head temperature will
inexorably rise beyond the normal range of 650⁰C to 850⁰C and will
rapidly reach temperatures beyond the safe thermal range of the exhaust
valve head. The hottest point of the valve will be the fillet and, if
you take a look at your valve head, the one stuck in the valve port, the
fillet is right where it broke - as could be *predicted*. The *location*
of the point of failure is the primary clue as to the cause. The
circumstances surrounding the *moment* of failure tends to *confirm*
initial thoughts vis a fast downhill run on WOT in a high gear where it
is possible, nay, likely, to exceed maximum safe RPM. Worse if a
downshift was executed. A bit of valve lofting or float and disaster
awaits. Add in the fact that 15-20 thou clearance was removed from the
already marginal clearance of a high performance engine, and a valve
head to piston contact event is just about guaranteed. The moment it
occurs, cooling of the head is compromised and the valve head
temperature rises within milliseconds to thermally unsafe levels. Now
the only reliable heat sinking is through the valve stem so the fillet
area overheats, softens and the head parts company from the stem. At
high speed, that head is going to do quite a bit of *untethered*
bouncing around and you end up with the scenario depicted. So utterly
predictable!

I would normally say, at this point, consider yourself educated, but you
seem to be uneducable! You prove that when you show me an intake valve
and attempt to intimate that its behaviour will be the same as an
exhaust valve. You're wrong, as always, but the sad fact here is that
you cannot even work out why you are wrong. I put it down to two things;
your current knowledge is piecemeal and random, and you have a reading
comprehension issue. The required knowledge that you appear to lack is
definitely *out there* and readily available but it us usually found in
*text books* and therein lies your problem. As I have oft stated, your
inability to pass the year 9 exam to the requisite level is the reason
you were not able to sign up for any apprenticeship ever - without the
basics you wouldn't have had a snowflake's hope in hell of ever
completing. And you prove it time and time again.

[Clocky]

Post by Noddy

Post by Daryl

Post by Noddy
These pricks were absolutely hopeless, but credit where it's due I
have to give props to Mitsubishi. This poor little thing ran like
shit, but given how bad it was and the fact that it wasn't sealing on
3 cylinders I'm surprised it ran at all :)

Some engines just refuse to die regardless of how badly they are treated.

Indeed. This is certainly one of them. I'm tempted to throw the whole
thing in the nearest dumpster

With you working on it that's where it's going to end up anyway you
clueless idiot.

[Clocky]

Post by Noddy
Just when I thought I might me getting to the pointy end of fixing the
mess these country bumpkins with this tired old Fork of mine, I found
something new to get excited about today :)
To recap on the saga, the previous fucktarded owners had been chasing a
head gasket issue, and they'd been chasing it with a fucking big
grinder. Presumably thinking the block was warped, they'd cut the crap
out of the head gasket face to "square it up"

<snip ignorant blah blah blah>

As predicted that engine has serious issues and *you* just made them
even worse by fucking about with it and not knowing what you are doing.

Thanks for proving you're the Dunning-Kruger poster child once again,
it's been very amusing.

[Xeno]

Post by Clocky

Post by Noddy
Just when I thought I might me getting to the pointy end of fixing the
mess these country bumpkins with this tired old Fork of mine, I found
something new to get excited about today :)
To recap on the saga, the previous fucktarded owners had been chasing
a head gasket issue, and they'd been chasing it with a fucking big
grinder. Presumably thinking the block was warped, they'd cut the crap
out of the head gasket face to "square it up"

<snip ignorant blah blah blah>
As predicted that engine has serious issues and *you* just made them
even worse by fucking about with it and not knowing what you are doing.
Thanks for proving you're the Dunning-Kruger poster child once again,
it's been very amusing.

You know, looking at the valve in Darren's video clip, that is an
extremely serious bend. It's likely that cylinder, and the other two
with bent valves, wouldn't run. That valve would be letting all the
fuel/air charge piss back out into the intake manifold - as well as a
combustion flame. Manifold backfiring for sure. A 4 cylinder engine will
run with one bent valve like that, at a stretch two, but with three
cylinders out of 4 pissing all their charge back into the intake
manifold on the compression stroke - unlikely. What's the bet Darren got
his passion fingers into it and bent those valves worse than they were,
maybe gave the engine a big rev up, until it became obvious to blind
Freddy what the problem really was.

[alvey]

So you've given up on cars Fraudster. Good decision.



alvey