Do pedestrians need wing mirrors now?

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on an
electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind at perhaps
20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my shoulder at the
closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely no
warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost traffic-free
road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider often
exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a lot of
time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I don't know if
anything happens.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Sylvia Else

2025-01-28 04:56:05 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on an
electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind at
perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my shoulder
at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely no
warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.

But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution case,
I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear what they
can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the police to a
cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then it would require
the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him in the act.

Sylvia.

Trevor Wilson

2025-01-28 08:11:49 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on an
electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind at
perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely no
warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost traffic-
free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I don't
know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.

**Smart move.

Post by Sylvia Else
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution case,
I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear what they
can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the police to a cul-
de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then it would require the
erection of a surveillance camera to catch him in the act.
Sylvia.

**One of the guys I see at my local gym is a retired cop (detective). He
is fit, strong and younger than I am (he's in his late 50s). He lives on
a modestly steep road and he has almost been hit by such bikes a few
times as they travel down the footpath. He is VERY concerned for himself
and his family. I figure if he can't get anything done, then the rest of
us have no chance.

Perhaps one of those wildlife cameras might be in order. I'm getting one
to catch the arsehole who let's his dog crap outside my front gate.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

lindsay

2025-01-28 09:20:01 UTC

Post by Trevor Wilson
is fit, strong and younger than I am (he's in his late 50s). He lives on
a modestly steep road and he has almost been hit by such bikes a few
times as they travel down the footpath. He is VERY concerned for himself
and his family. I figure if he can't get anything done, then the rest of
us have no chance.
Perhaps one of those wildlife cameras might be in order. I'm getting one
to catch the arsehole who let's his dog crap outside my front gate.

we use these... https://tinyurl.com/muw8b4jn

jonz

2025-01-28 09:33:11 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on an
electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind at
perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely no
warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I don't
know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear what
they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the police to
a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then it would
require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW, with
local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport for NSW.

*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

Sylvia Else

2025-01-28 10:35:37 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on an
electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind at
perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely no
warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I don't
know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear what
they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the police to
a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then it would
require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW, with
local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now. Turns out these things are legal to ride on the
pavement here, albeit at no more than 10km/h. Riders are supposed to
give a warning to pedestrians when approaching from behind, but of
course I received no such warning. Proving excessive speed or the lack
of a warning would be difficult.

Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I cannot
imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

Sylvia.

Daryl

2025-01-28 11:15:36 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind at
perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely no
warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I don't
know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW, with
local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)

Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Post by Sylvia Else
pavement here, albeit at no more than 10km/h. Riders are supposed to
give a warning to pedestrians when approaching from behind, but of
course I received no such warning. Proving excessive speed or the lack
of a warning would be difficult.

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know the
rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one has
ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I cannot
imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

--
Daryl

Keithr0

2025-01-28 11:48:24 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport
for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

They are a leading cause of house fires.

Sylvia Else

2025-01-28 12:23:15 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend
a lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a
hip fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to
avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to
Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know
the rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one
has ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

They are a leading cause of house fires.

So there is some justice in the world.

Sylvia.

Daryl

2025-01-29 09:43:49 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager
on an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from
behind at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away
from my shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend
a lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a
hip fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer
to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even
then it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to
catch him in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to
Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW,
current projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know
the rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one
has ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word,
bu what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

They are a leading cause of house fires.

So there is some justice in the world.

That's a bit harsh.
Trouble is we notice people behaving badly on scooters but don't even
notice the ones who do the right thing.

--
Daryl

Daryl

2025-01-29 09:39:18 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend
a lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a
hip fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to
avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to
Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know
the rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one
has ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

They are a leading cause of house fires.

Sure seems that way, AFAIK the main cause is people treating electric
scooters roughly possibly damaging the batteries, damaged lithium
batteries are a fire waiting to happen.

--
Daryl

Keithr0

2025-01-29 09:58:28 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager
on an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from
behind at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away
from my shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend
a lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a
hip fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer
to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even
then it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to
catch him in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to
Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW,
current projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know
the rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one
has ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word,
bu what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

They are a leading cause of house fires.

Sure seems that way, AFAIK the main cause is people treating electric
scooters roughly possibly damaging the batteries, damaged lithium
batteries are a fire waiting to happen.

Buying cheap Chinese shit and fast charging them in the house.

Daryl

2025-01-29 11:09:11 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager
on an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from
behind at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away
from my shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had
absolutely no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross
this almost traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been
a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and
rider often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you,
you'll spend a lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to
the cops, but I don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a
hip fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer
to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the
prosecution case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed,
it's not clear what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I
could point the police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably
lives, but even then it would require the erection of a
surveillance camera to catch him in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to
Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW,
current projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Post by Sylvia Else
pavement here, albeit at no more than 10km/h. Riders are supposed
to give a warning to pedestrians when approaching from behind, but
of course I received no such warning. Proving excessive speed or
the lack of a warning would be difficult.

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know
the rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one
has ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word,
bu what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

They are a leading cause of house fires.

Sure seems that way, AFAIK the main cause is people treating electric
scooters roughly possibly damaging the batteries, damaged lithium
batteries are a fire waiting to happen.

Buying cheap Chinese shit and fast charging them in the house.

That certainly doesn't help.
I've owned and charged many lithium batteries over many years, I still
have lots of batteries for RC cars and drones and one thing I've learned
is they don't like too much heat, my RC battery charger has a temp
sensor that gets wrapped around the battery and if it detects excessive
heat it turns the charger off.
I also have about 10 power tool batteries, some of those are more than
10yrs old and never had a problem with any of them so decent quality
batteries and chargers are usually safe, good quality gear has built in
protection against overcharging and excess heat which should be compulsory.
All my garden power tools including my lawnmower are also battery powered.

--
Daryl

Trevor Wilson

2025-01-28 19:19:41 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport
for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

**That's dumber than most things you say.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

Daryl

2025-01-29 09:41:45 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend
a lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a
hip fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to
avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to
Transport for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now.

Got sick and tired of fixing the garage door:-)
Turns out these things are legal to ride on the

Trouble with all these laws/rules we have is that there is no one to
enforce them, very likely the riders of these things don't even know
the rules because either they are too lazy to look them up or no one
has ever told them.

Post by Sylvia Else
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?) usually displayed by the state these days, I
cannot imagine what would lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

They are electric and are saving the planet so they can do no wrong.

**That's dumber than most things you say.

LOL, recognizing sarcasm is obviously not your strong point:-)
Did I forget to put a smiley on the end of my post above?

--
Daryl

jonz

2025-01-29 00:55:24 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport
for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now. Turns out these things are legal to ride on the
pavement here, albeit at no more than 10km/h. Riders are supposed to
give a warning to pedestrians when approaching from behind, but of
course I received no such warning. Proving excessive speed or the lack
of a warning would be difficult.
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

'Nothing', in that case!. ;)

Post by Sylvia Else
usually displayed by the state these days, I cannot imagine what would
lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

They have been legal in NZ for >10yrs now. In Dunedin, (and rest of
the country i suppose) They are left where ever the last user finished
with it. You need an account with the owner of the things. Find a
scooter, scan the QR code on it and away you go. On the footpath, or
road, whatever takes your fancy. ;) . No helmet req. they can be handy,
but as you say they can also be a real hazard.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

Sylvia Else

2025-01-29 16:37:32 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
I was walking along a street, on the pavement, when a teenager on
an electric scooter, also on the pavement, came past from behind
at perhaps 20km/h. On my estimate he was only 20 cm away from my
shoulder at the closest point.
Damned scooter is almost completely silent, and I had absolutely
no warning of its approach. Had I decided to cross this almost
traffic-free road at that moment, there'd have been a collision.
Bloody menace!
Sylvia.

**They are, indeed, a menace. The combined mass of bike and rider
often exceeds 60 ~ 70kg. If such an object hits you, you'll spend a
lot of time in hospital. I report sightings to the cops, but I
don't know if anything happens.

I'm of an age, or rapidly approaching it, where something like a hip
fracture has a significant mortality rate. I'd really prefer to avoid that.
But unless one can provide enough evidence to make the prosecution
case, I doubt the police will do anything. Indeed, it's not clear
what they can do where it's a rare occurrence. I could point the
police to a cul-de-sac where this lad probably lives, but even then
it would require the erection of a surveillance camera to catch him
in the act.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Might have to get used to them. There is a trial period in NSW,
with local councils and road authorities having to apply to Transport
for NSW.
*NSW Shared E-Scooter trial program*, Transport for NSW, current
projects.

Post by Sylvia Else
Sylvia.

I live in Perth now. Turns out these things are legal to ride on the
pavement here, albeit at no more than 10km/h. Riders are supposed to
give a warning to pedestrians when approaching from behind, but of
course I received no such warning. Proving excessive speed or the lack
of a warning would be difficult.
Given the level of nannyism (spell checker says that isn't a word, bu
what does it know?)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'Nothing', in that case!. ;)

Post by Sylvia Else
usually displayed by the state these days, I cannot imagine what would
lead them to legalise such an obvious hazard.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They have been legal in NZ for >10yrs now. In Dunedin, (and rest of
the country i suppose) They are left where ever the last user finished
with it. You need an account with the owner of the things. Find a
scooter, scan the QR code on it and away you go. On the footpath, or
road, whatever takes your fancy. ;) . No helmet req. they can be handy,
but as you say they can also be a real hazard.

It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid knocks me
down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life. Who pays for it?

Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I might
get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the incident,
and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.

There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

Sylvia.

Noddy

2025-01-29 20:46:52 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid knocks me
down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life. Who pays for it?
Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I might
get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the incident,
and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.
There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

This argument has been used against cyclists for decades. They're a road
vehicle that are capable of killing and injuring other people, but
unlike any other road vehicle they're not required to be covered with
any kind of compulsory 3rd party insurance leaving any victim with no
option but to take a civil suit against the rider.

This argument has come up here many times before, and on a previous
occasion someone claimed that the public liability component of a house
insurance policy would cover such incidents, but that assumes (a) that
the offending person has such a policy, and (b) that they're willing to
make a claim.

It would be a *far* better idea if all bikes and scooters were
registered and insured like any other vehicle.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

Keithr0

2025-01-29 22:00:33 UTC

Post by Noddy

Post by Sylvia Else
It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid knocks
me down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life. Who pays for
it?
Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I might
get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the incident,
and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.
There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

This argument has been used against cyclists for decades. They're a road
vehicle that are capable of killing and injuring other people, but
unlike any other road vehicle they're not required to be covered with
any kind of compulsory 3rd party insurance leaving any victim with no
option but to take a civil suit against the rider.
This argument has come up here many times before, and on a previous
occasion someone claimed that the public liability component of a house
insurance policy would cover such incidents, but that assumes (a) that
the offending person has such a policy, and (b) that they're willing to
make a claim.
It would be a *far* better idea if all bikes and scooters were
registered and insured like any other vehicle.

It's an interesting point that, watching a TV program about Highway
Patrol cops, they pulled over a guy on a bicycle who had fitted a small
2 stroke engine to it. He was told that, having done so, his bike was
considered a motorbike and needed to be registered and he needed a
licence to ride it. However, these days there are lots of electric bikes
around which would seem to be in exactly the same position but without
any need for registration.

Daryl

2025-01-29 23:03:18 UTC

Post by Noddy

Post by Sylvia Else
It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid knocks
me down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life. Who pays
for it?
Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I might
get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the
incident, and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.
There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

This argument has been used against cyclists for decades. They're a
road vehicle that are capable of killing and injuring other people,
but unlike any other road vehicle they're not required to be covered
with any kind of compulsory 3rd party insurance leaving any victim
with no option but to take a civil suit against the rider.
This argument has come up here many times before, and on a previous
occasion someone claimed that the public liability component of a
house insurance policy would cover such incidents, but that assumes
(a) that the offending person has such a policy, and (b) that they're
willing to make a claim.
It would be a *far* better idea if all bikes and scooters were
registered and insured like any other vehicle.

For some reason Govts etc seem reluctant to do anything about it
possibly because anything electric is "green" and they don't want to be
seen as anti the environment.
Sooner or later they are going to have to regulate electric scooters,
the sooner the better but even if they do bring in some rules I'm not
optimistic that the rules will be enforced.
There also needs to be stricter regulation and enforcement on what can
and cannot be imported, they need to ban the cheap crap that catches
fire if you look at them the wrong way.
Doing that should increase prices so its likely that there would be less
of the cheap crap.

--
Daryl

Keithr0

2025-01-29 23:56:50 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid
knocks me down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life. Who
pays for it?
Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I
might get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the
incident, and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.
There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

This argument has been used against cyclists for decades. They're a
road vehicle that are capable of killing and injuring other people,
but unlike any other road vehicle they're not required to be covered
with any kind of compulsory 3rd party insurance leaving any victim
with no option but to take a civil suit against the rider.
This argument has come up here many times before, and on a previous
occasion someone claimed that the public liability component of a
house insurance policy would cover such incidents, but that assumes
(a) that the offending person has such a policy, and (b) that they're
willing to make a claim.
It would be a *far* better idea if all bikes and scooters were
registered and insured like any other vehicle.

It's an interesting point that, watching a TV program about Highway
Patrol cops, they pulled over a guy on a bicycle who had fitted a
small 2 stroke engine to it. He was told that, having done so, his
bike was considered a motorbike and needed to be registered and he
needed a licence to ride it. However, these days there are lots of
electric bikes around which would seem to be in exactly the same
position but without any need for registration.

They did ban "Hover boards" which seemed to have a 100% chance of
catching fire while charging. Maybe there needs to be some standard set
for battery powered stuff same as there are with many other products,
and imports would have to meet these standards. The problem is though
that it's difficult to control stuff bought from places like Temu or
AliExpress via the internet.

Daryl

2025-01-30 01:38:12 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid
knocks me down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life.
Who pays for it?
Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I
might get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the
incident, and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.
There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

This argument has been used against cyclists for decades. They're a
road vehicle that are capable of killing and injuring other people,
but unlike any other road vehicle they're not required to be covered
with any kind of compulsory 3rd party insurance leaving any victim
with no option but to take a civil suit against the rider.
This argument has come up here many times before, and on a previous
occasion someone claimed that the public liability component of a
house insurance policy would cover such incidents, but that assumes
(a) that the offending person has such a policy, and (b) that
they're willing to make a claim.
It would be a *far* better idea if all bikes and scooters were
registered and insured like any other vehicle.

It's an interesting point that, watching a TV program about Highway
Patrol cops, they pulled over a guy on a bicycle who had fitted a
small 2 stroke engine to it. He was told that, having done so, his
bike was considered a motorbike and needed to be registered and he
needed a licence to ride it. However, these days there are lots of
electric bikes around which would seem to be in exactly the same
position but without any need for registration.

For some reason Govts etc seem reluctant to do anything about it
possibly because anything electric is "green" and they don't want to
be seen as anti the environment.
Sooner or later they are going to have to regulate electric scooters,
the sooner the better but even if they do bring in some rules I'm not
optimistic that the rules will be enforced.
There also needs to be stricter regulation and enforcement on what can
and cannot be imported, they need to ban the cheap crap that catches
fire if you look at them the wrong way.
Doing that should increase prices so its likely that there would be
less of the cheap crap.

Agree.
Maybe house insurance companies could make it that their insurance
policies are voided if a product that doesn't meet certain standards
catches fire?
Built in protection from over voltage and overheating should be
mandatory, also batteries need to be well protected from abuse.

--
Daryl

Daryl

2025-01-30 01:46:14 UTC

Post by Sylvia Else
It occurred to me to wonder what happens when this teenage kid
knocks me down, and I require 24/7 care for the rest of my life.
Who pays for it?
Seems there's no insurer to sue, only the teenager, from whom I
might get the second-hand value of the scooter, if it survived the
incident, and his mobile phone, ditto, and that would be about it.
There should at least be a 3rd party insurance requirement, and a
nominal defendant for cases where someone was not insured.

This argument has been used against cyclists for decades. They're a
road vehicle that are capable of killing and injuring other people,
but unlike any other road vehicle they're not required to be
covered with any kind of compulsory 3rd party insurance leaving any
victim with no option but to take a civil suit against the rider.
This argument has come up here many times before, and on a previous
occasion someone claimed that the public liability component of a
house insurance policy would cover such incidents, but that assumes
(a) that the offending person has such a policy, and (b) that
they're willing to make a claim.
It would be a *far* better idea if all bikes and scooters were
registered and insured like any other vehicle.

It's an interesting point that, watching a TV program about Highway
Patrol cops, they pulled over a guy on a bicycle who had fitted a
small 2 stroke engine to it. He was told that, having done so, his
bike was considered a motorbike and needed to be registered and he
needed a licence to ride it. However, these days there are lots of
electric bikes around which would seem to be in exactly the same
position but without any need for registration.

For some reason Govts etc seem reluctant to do anything about it
possibly because anything electric is "green" and they don't want to
be seen as anti the environment.
Sooner or later they are going to have to regulate electric scooters,
the sooner the better but even if they do bring in some rules I'm not
optimistic that the rules will be enforced.
There also needs to be stricter regulation and enforcement on what
can and cannot be imported, they need to ban the cheap crap that
catches fire if you look at them the wrong way.
Doing that should increase prices so its likely that there would be
less of the cheap crap.

They did ban "Hover boards" which seemed to have a 100% chance of
catching fire while charging. Maybe there needs to be some standard
set for battery powered stuff same as there are with many other
products, and imports would have to meet these standards. The problem
is though that it's difficult to control stuff bought from places like
Temu or AliExpress via the internet.

Just found these E scooter rules for Victoria.
https://transport.vic.gov.au/Road-rules-and-safety/E-scooter-road-rules

Must be over 16 and not allowed to ride on footpaths plus lots of other
rules, I wonder if they ever get enforced?

--
Daryl

jonz

2025-01-30 02:38:31 UTC