Coolant leak at gas convertor

[Matt]

Hi everyone,

My car (ED 6cyl auto) has started leaking coolant from the gas converter
(an OHC X-1) :-(

It's coming out as a fairly high pressure "jet" (looks like a minature
version of a high pressure spray like at Car Lovers) which slows &
eventually stops when the car is turned off (I assume as it cools down
and the pressure dimishes). The leak is on the bottom of the converter
towards the front of the converter (front of the car).

I know this might be hard without seeing the problem in the flesh, but
can any of the gas experts in here suggest if this is repairable or
means a new convertor, and approximately how much it might cost?

Additionally, am I risking any further damage by driving the car on
petrol to a mechanic to get it fixed, and can anyone recommend a quality
gas expert in Melbourne's south east (Hawthorn-Camberwell-Box Hill area)?

TIA.

Cheers,
Matt

[Ron the Barbarian]

Post by Matt
Hi everyone,
My car (ED 6cyl auto) has started leaking coolant from the gas converter
(an OHC X-1) :-(

KEEP YELLING FOR "ATHOL" !!

[Noddy]

Post by Matt
I know this might be hard without seeing the problem in the flesh, but
can any of the gas experts in here suggest if this is repairable or
means a new convertor, and approximately how much it might cost?

I'm far from a gas expert, but I can tell you that it's not normal :)

Gas converters are plumbed into the car's cooling system to heat the
converter and help vaporise the gas, and they have coolant running through
them at all times. This obviously means that your car will leak coolant
regardless of what fuel you run it on.

What exactly is causing the leak I can't tell you, as it could be a cracked
or broken elbow where a coolant hose joins to the converter, or it could be
some damage or corrosion to the converter body itself. Either way, if you
elect to drive it you risk severe engine damage if the coolant leak should
suddenly get worse and the loss becomes great.

My advice would be to not drive the car unless you can prevent the leak
temporarily, and you can do that by disconnecting the two coolant hoses from
the converter and joining them together with a small section if pipe.
Alternately, you can block the flow from these hoses by clamping a tight
fitting bung in each free end of the hose.

Of course, if you choose to do either of these, make sure the leak has
stopped before attempting to drive the car.

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Graham W]

Post by Matt
My car (ED 6cyl auto) has started leaking coolant from the gas converter
(an OHC X-1) :-(
It's coming out as a fairly high pressure "jet" (looks like a minature
version of a high pressure spray like at Car Lovers) which slows &
eventually stops when the car is turned off (I assume as it cools down
and the pressure dimishes).

That makes sense.

Post by Matt
The leak is on the bottom of the converter
towards the front of the converter (front of the car).

Lord only knows which way around the thing is mounted, so that doesn't
tell us much.

Post by Matt
I know this might be hard without seeing the problem in the flesh, but
can any of the gas experts in here suggest if this is repairable or
means a new convertor, and approximately how much it might cost?

A converter isn't very expensive, maybe $300. It's probably just be a
gasket failure, but by the time you pull it out and strip it down,
rebuild kits are worth most of the value of a new unit.

Post by Matt
Additionally, am I risking any further damage by driving the car on
petrol to a mechanic to get it fixed, and can anyone recommend a quality
gas expert in Melbourne's south east (Hawthorn-Camberwell-Box Hill area)?

You're biggest risk isn't anything to do with th gas, it's running out
of coolant. At least if you're running on gas the car will (usually)
stop from lack of vaporised fuel before it overheats.

[Clockmeister]

Post by Matt
Hi everyone,
My car (ED 6cyl auto) has started leaking coolant from the gas converter
(an OHC X-1) :-(
It's coming out as a fairly high pressure "jet" (looks like a minature
version of a high pressure spray like at Car Lovers) which slows &
eventually stops when the car is turned off (I assume as it cools down
and the pressure dimishes). The leak is on the bottom of the converter
towards the front of the converter (front of the car).

That could be caused by corrosion or a split gasket/diaphragm, split or
leaking elbow or connecting hoses. Could you be a bit more specific?

Post by Matt
I know this might be hard without seeing the problem in the flesh, but
can any of the gas experts in here suggest if this is repairable or
means a new convertor, and approximately how much it might cost?

Yes, they are repairable up to a point, else you'll have to buy a new one.
Around $300

Post by Matt
Additionally, am I risking any further damage by driving the car on
petrol to a mechanic to get it fixed, and can anyone recommend a quality
gas expert in Melbourne's south east (Hawthorn-Camberwell-Box Hill area)?

No, but do make sure you don't run out of coolant, because even if you run
it on petrol the water will still leak at the convertor.

Regards,

Clockmeister.

[athol]

Post by Matt
My car (ED 6cyl auto) has started leaking coolant from the gas converter
(an OHC X-1) :-(

For reference, the OHG X1, Elko, Nolffs and the AU-made B2 are all
the same, so if it needs replacing, any of those can be fitted.
The only exception is if you have a "prime" solenoid on the button
on the middle of the front cover, in which case the OHG front
cover would need to be transferred to the other brand unit.

The only other difference would be the secondary spring, which may
be different depending upon the make of mixer.

Post by Matt
It's coming out as a fairly high pressure "jet" (looks like a minature
version of a high pressure spray like at Car Lovers) which slows &
eventually stops when the car is turned off (I assume as it cools down
and the pressure dimishes). The leak is on the bottom of the converter
towards the front of the converter (front of the car).
I know this might be hard without seeing the problem in the flesh, but
can any of the gas experts in here suggest if this is repairable or
means a new convertor, and approximately how much it might cost?

If the leak is coming from a fitting, the black plastic (nylon)
fittings are worth less than $5 each. Brass fittings rarely fail
but cost slightly more. I personally only use GANN brand plastic
fittings and have never had one fail.

If the leak is from the body of the convertor and the thing has
run without corrosion inhibitor, it could have corroded through.
This is _extremely_ unlikely - I know of X1s running straight tap
water for 10+ years without corroding out. On your ED, I'd expect
the cylinder head to die long before the convertor.

If the leak is from the rear body gasket, you may as well replace
the convertor, as the body will probably be corroded (see above)
and the labour plus cost of a reco kit is worth more than a new
one!

New convertor supplied and fitted should be about $300. There
_should_ be no adjustments required unless there was something
else wrong with the convertor that was affecting the mixture. All
of the adjustments are outside the convertor aside from making sure
that it has the correct spring.

Post by Matt
Additionally, am I risking any further damage by driving the car on
petrol to a mechanic to get it fixed, and can anyone recommend a quality
gas expert in Melbourne's south east (Hawthorn-Camberwell-Box Hill area)?

Better to run on LPG. Coolant loss will freeze the convertor and
stall the engine. This will usually occur well before the engine
cooks. Running on petrol under the same circumstances could run
the thing out of coolant and cook the engine.

[Matt]

Thanks for the advice everyone, pretty much answers everything I wanted
to know :-)

As far as I can see the leak is coming from somewhere on the bottom of
the body of the convertor rather than a tube/fitting - it is hard to see
under there though.

Cheers,
Matt

[athol]

Post by Matt
As far as I can see the leak is coming from somewhere on the bottom of
the body of the convertor rather than a tube/fitting - it is hard to see
under there though.

Have you frozen the convertor recently? If you managed to freeze it
while full of coolant, you may have cracked the casing. That's a
very rare failure, but entirely possible.

If that's what has happened, you can give me the busted one when you
get a new one fitted. :-)

[Matt]

Post by athol

Post by Matt
As far as I can see the leak is coming from somewhere on the bottom of
the body of the convertor rather than a tube/fitting - it is hard to see
under there though.

Have you frozen the convertor recently? If you managed to freeze it
while full of coolant, you may have cracked the casing. That's a
very rare failure, but entirely possible.

Not as far as I know :-) The gas place I'm taking it to on Monday quoted
$220 as a worst case (replacement convertor), so I'm not too upset about
it all.

Post by athol
If that's what has happened, you can give me the busted one when you
get a new one fitted. :-)

If they replace it, you're more than welcome to it :-)

Cheers,
Matt

[Ric]

I have a EF falcon wagon with a factory Tickford system. I can't drive with
the window down because of the gassy smell. When I am cruising it is ok but
when I back off the accelerater the rpm drops and the engine stalls. I took
it to a gas place and the guy said the converter needs a kit put through
it. I say OK and he goes ahead.

When I pick up the car he tells me that there is an apeture with a sliding
needle through it that regulates the amount of gas. These wear out and so
he has put in a brass bushing.

I drive away and the gassy smell has gone. As soon as I back of the
accelerater the engine dies. I go straight back and inform the mechanic. He
just says "I can fit you in on Mon(this was Wed and he had the car all day).
I drive away on petrol not real impressed.

I call into another gas place on the way home and tell him of the above. He
tells me no way has the other place put a kit through a Tickford converter
for $165.00. He saya he will look at it and I can come back a little later.

When I go back he tells me the converter is stuffed and he will need to get
me a new one from Vic, because it is a Tickford system. The quote is $600
fitted.

Am I about to be ripped off again? Is this a reasonable amount? Should I get
a genuine Tickford system converter?

Ric

Post by Matt

Post by athol

Post by Matt
As far as I can see the leak is coming from somewhere on the bottom of
the body of the convertor rather than a tube/fitting - it is hard to see
under there though.

Have you frozen the convertor recently? If you managed to freeze it
while full of coolant, you may have cracked the casing. That's a
very rare failure, but entirely possible.

Not as far as I know :-) The gas place I'm taking it to on Monday quoted
$220 as a worst case (replacement convertor), so I'm not too upset about
it all.

Post by athol
If that's what has happened, you can give me the busted one when you
get a new one fitted. :-)

If they replace it, you're more than welcome to it :-)
Cheers,
Matt

[athol]

Post by Ric
I have a EF falcon wagon with a factory Tickford system.
When I go back he tells me the converter is stuffed and he will need to get
me a new one from Vic, because it is a Tickford system. The quote is $600
fitted.
Am I about to be ripped off again? Is this a reasonable amount? Should I get
a genuine Tickford system converter?

Not certain what model of LPG system were fitted to EF. The tickford
systems on EB used an Impco Model E, which should retail for a lot
less than that. It could also be adapted to take an OHG X1, Nolff,
Elko or B1 without a lot of drama (smaller, slightly bigger rating but
essentially equivalent).

Find the convertor. Look for a brand name cast into the front cover.
If it has "Impco" in script (running writing) cast in the front, the
replacement of the convertor should be under $300. If it is something
from europe (I think that EL or later went to some wierd dutch system),
it may be a lot more expensive.

[Ric]

The converter has "VALE Netherlands" embossed on the cover. If I convert to
a cheaper local? converter will it degrade the performance of the gas
system?

Ric

Post by athol

Post by Ric
I have a EF falcon wagon with a factory Tickford system.
When I go back he tells me the converter is stuffed and he will need to get
me a new one from Vic, because it is a Tickford system. The quote is $600
fitted.
Am I about to be ripped off again? Is this a reasonable amount? Should I get
a genuine Tickford system converter?

Not certain what model of LPG system were fitted to EF. The tickford
systems on EB used an Impco Model E, which should retail for a lot
less than that. It could also be adapted to take an OHG X1, Nolff,
Elko or B1 without a lot of drama (smaller, slightly bigger rating but
essentially equivalent).
Find the convertor. Look for a brand name cast into the front cover.
If it has "Impco" in script (running writing) cast in the front, the
replacement of the convertor should be under $300. If it is something
from europe (I think that EL or later went to some wierd dutch system),
it may be a lot more expensive.
--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[Noddy]

Post by Ric
The converter has "VALE Netherlands" embossed on the cover. If I convert to
a cheaper local? converter will it degrade the performance of the gas
system?

Probably not, as the Tickford system was one of the worst :)

--
Regards,
Noddy.

[athol]

Post by Noddy

Post by Ric
The converter has "VALE Netherlands" embossed on the cover. If I
convert to a cheaper local? converter will it degrade the
performance of the gas system?

Probably not, as the Tickford system was one of the worst :)

Yep. If you want a cheap job, see if the mixer (probably a
fixed venturi) can be adapted to an italian convertor. OMVL,
for example.

If you want a decent setup, you'd need to change the convertor
and mixer. Gets a bit more expensive.

[Ric]

If I buy a decent mixer and converter, how much can I expect to pay?

Ric

Post by athol

Post by Noddy

Post by Ric
The converter has "VALE Netherlands" embossed on the cover. If I
convert to a cheaper local? converter will it degrade the
performance of the gas system?

Probably not, as the Tickford system was one of the worst :)

Yep. If you want a cheap job, see if the mixer (probably a
fixed venturi) can be adapted to an italian convertor. OMVL,
for example.
If you want a decent setup, you'd need to change the convertor
and mixer. Gets a bit more expensive.
--
Athol
<http://cust.idl.com.au/athol>
Linux Registered User # 254000
I'm a Libran Engineer. I don't argue, I discuss.

[John McKenzie]

Post by athol
Yep. If you want a cheap job, see if the mixer (probably a
fixed venturi) can be adapted to an italian convertor. OMVL,
for example.

This may sound like a dumb question (as I've learnt what I know through
actually taking them apart and working out what it all does, and hence
my knowledge is limited mostly to what I've actually taken apart!) but
is their any technical documentation available with the omvls or any
other convertos?
--
John McKenzie

***@aol.com ***@aol.com ***@yahoo.com ***@hotmail.com
***@msn.com ***@sprint.com ***@earthlink.com ***@psinet.com
***@accc.gov.au ***@ftc.gov ***@loopback $***@localhost
$***@localhost $***@localhost $USER@$HOST -***@localhost
***@mailloop.com ***@whitehouse.gov ***@whitehouse.gov
***@iprimus.com.au ***@cia.gov ***@fbi.gov ***@asio.gov.au
***@federalpolice.gov.au

[athol]

Post by John McKenzie

Post by athol
Yep. If you want a cheap job, see if the mixer (probably a
fixed venturi) can be adapted to an italian convertor. OMVL,
for example.

This may sound like a dumb question (as I've learnt what I know through
actually taking them apart and working out what it all does, and hence
my knowledge is limited mostly to what I've actually taken apart!) but
is their any technical documentation available with the omvls or any
other convertos?

Aside from a table of convertor vs pressures that is generally handed
out in installers courses, I've never seen any model specific info.

There are generic instructions given out as part of the course notes
for installers.

IIRC, the total documentation I've seen from OHG for the X1 is a few
pages of dimensioned drawings of the outside showing the mounting bolt
pattern, positions of ports, etc..

On the whole, they seem to be too simple to need detailed instructions.

[Ron the Barbarian]

Post by Ric
I have a EF falcon wagon with a factory Tickford system. I can't drive
with the window down because of the gassy smell. When I am cruising it
is ok but when I back off the accelerater the rpm drops and the engine
stalls. I took it to a gas place and the guy said the converter needs
a kit put through it. I say OK and he goes ahead.
When I pick up the car he tells me that there is an apeture with a
sliding needle through it that regulates the amount of gas. These wear
out and so he has put in a brass bushing.
I drive away and the gassy smell has gone. As soon as I back of the
accelerater the engine dies. I go straight back and inform the
mechanic. He just says "I can fit you in on Mon(this was Wed and he
had the car all day). I drive away on petrol not real impressed.
I call into another gas place on the way home and tell him of the
above. He tells me no way has the other place put a kit through a
Tickford converter for $165.00. He saya he will look at it and I can
come back a little later.
When I go back he tells me the converter is stuffed and he will need
to get me a new one from Vic, because it is a Tickford system. The
quote is $600 fitted.
Am I about to be ripped off again? Is this a reasonable amount? Should
I get a genuine Tickford system converter?
Ric

Post by Matt

Post by athol

Post by Matt
As far as I can see the leak is coming from somewhere on the bottom
of the body of the convertor rather than a tube/fitting - it is
hard to see under there though.

Have you frozen the convertor recently? If you managed to freeze
it while full of coolant, you may have cracked the casing. That's
a very rare failure, but entirely possible.

Not as far as I know :-) The gas place I'm taking it to on Monday
quoted $220 as a worst case (replacement convertor), so I'm not too
upset about it all.

Post by athol
If that's what has happened, you can give me the busted one when
you get a new one fitted. :-)

If they replace it, you're more than welcome to it :-)
Cheers,
Matt

Athol, is the GAS man you need for advice.

I've already been ripped of by those so called mechanics...

[Matt]

Ended up being a leaking diaphragm, cost $95 to fix ($55 labour, $30ish
part, plus GST).

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Cheers,
Matt