OT: Ping Trevor - Turntable recommendations

[Noddy]

Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.

My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a new
stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based stereo that
I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to be a bit
unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He basically just wants
a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no interest in CD's or tapes, and
with that in mind I have 2 questions for you.

Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither is
he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something that
sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system that could
be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all ears.

Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out for?
I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha hifi
systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if something
of that nature (or anything else you could recommend) would be a better
bet instead?

Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

[alvey]

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a new
stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based stereo that
I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to be a bit
unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He basically just wants
a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no interest in CD's or tapes, and
with that in mind I have 2 questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither is
he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something that
sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system that could
be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out for?
I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha hifi
systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if something
of that nature (or anything else you could recommend) would be a better
bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

For the kid hey Fraudster? Sure it is. I believe you. Honest.



alvey
And what teenage boy *wouldn't* want an old, 2nd hand music player that
takes up half a room and produces seriously shithouse sound for his
birthday?

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by alvey

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a
new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based
stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to be
a bit unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He basically
just wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no interest in CD's
or tapes, and with that in mind I have 2 questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither is
he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something
that sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system
that could be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all
ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out
for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha
hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if
something of that nature (or anything else you could recommend) would
be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

For the kid hey Fraudster? Sure it is. I believe you. Honest.

not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment, lol. but
his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

Post by alvey
alvey
And what teenage boy *wouldn't* want an old, 2nd hand music player
that takes up half a room and produces seriously shithouse sound for
his birthday?

I have Kef Concerto main speakers for the TV surround sound system,
paired with a B&W centre and JBL rears. sounds good!

[Keithr0]

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by alvey

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a
new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based
stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to be
a bit unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He basically
just wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no interest in CD's
or tapes, and with that in mind I have 2 questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither is
he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something
that sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system
that could be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all
ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out
for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha
hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if
something of that nature (or anything else you could recommend) would
be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

For the kid hey Fraudster? Sure it is. I believe you. Honest.

not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment, lol. but
his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should be OK
if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by alvey
alvey
And what teenage boy *wouldn't* want an old, 2nd hand music player
that takes up half a room and produces seriously shithouse sound for
his birthday?

I have Kef Concerto main speakers for the TV surround sound system,
paired with a B&W centre and JBL rears. sounds good!

I've a pair of halfway decent speakers that I bought in 1988, even
though we've moved house 7 times since then, they still sound just fine.

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by alvey

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like
a new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based
stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to
be a bit unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He
basically just wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no
interest in CD's or tapes, and with that in mind I have 2 questions
for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither
is he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want
something that sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of
a system that could be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks
I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out
for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha
hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if
something of that nature (or anything else you could recommend)
would be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

For the kid hey Fraudster? Sure it is. I believe you. Honest.

not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment, lol.
but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should be
OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling from
use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on contacts,
etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the tracks wear on the
pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by alvey
alvey
And what teenage boy *wouldn't* want an old, 2nd hand music player
that takes up half a room and produces seriously shithouse sound for
his birthday?

I have Kef Concerto main speakers for the TV surround sound system,
paired with a B&W centre and JBL rears. sounds good!

I've a pair of halfway decent speakers that I bought in 1988, even
though we've moved house 7 times since then, they still sound just fine.

no reason why they wouldn't, except speaker suspensions (especially bass
drivers) can lose rigidity over time which can cause diaphragm flapping
and poling. also the failure of crossover components.

[Keithr0]

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment, lol.
but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should be
OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling from
use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on contacts,
etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the tracks wear on the
pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen for
crackles, replacement is a minor job. Corrosion on contacts will not
occur if it has been kept in a reasonable environment. Dry joints do not
develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken joints can occur from
heat cycling in badly designed or constructed equipment, but a good
thump will usually detect it.

The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment, lol.
but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should be
OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling
from use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on
contacts, etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the
tracks wear on the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen for
crackles, replacement is a minor job.

but who is going to buy an amp that needs to have the pots replaced,
unless they're an electronics technical person who can do it themselves,
which noddy is not, as he has amply shown in this ng. also, the person
selling the amp may have just squirted the pots to keep them going ok
for a while.

Post by Keithr0
Corrosion on contacts will not occur if it has been kept in a
reasonable environment.

which many are not, or maybe used in high humidity locations.

Post by Keithr0
Dry joints do not develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken
joints can occur from heat cycling in badly designed or constructed
equipment, but a good thump will usually detect it.

IOW dry joints develop over time, as I said. you could buy an amp that
works fine when you purchase it, then dry joints appear some time later
in normal use

Post by Keithr0
The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

that will not necessarily guarantee you won't have trouble with it
later. amps made in the 70's or 80's are now 50 odd years old! who in
their right mind would buy a 50 year old amp and expect to have no
problems with it, especially when amps only a few years old fail for all
sorts of reasons. semiconductors can fail, as I said in my original
post, and are far more likely to do so having had 50 years of use.

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment,
lol. but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should
be OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not
abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling
from use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on
contacts, etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the
tracks wear on the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen
for crackles, replacement is a minor job.

but who is going to buy an amp that needs to have the pots replaced,
unless they're an electronics technical person who can do it
themselves, which noddy is not, as he has amply shown in this ng.
also, the person selling the amp may have just squirted the pots to
keep them going ok for a while.

Any tech that charges more than half an hour to replace a pot is
ripping you off. More than one pot, add 10 minutes would be more than
adequate. Cost of a new pot ~$2. Worthwhile if it is good gear at a
reasonable price.

that's easy to claim, not so easy to substantiate. some pots can require
significant dismantling to remove them. and some pots are unique, which
means you can't just jam any pot in there, and so they can be quite costly.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
Corrosion on contacts will not occur if it has been kept in a
reasonable environment.

which many are not, or maybe used in high humidity locations.

If it's not a bottom feeding el cheapo device the plating should
handle most indoor environments.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
Dry joints do not develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken
joints can occur from heat cycling in badly designed or constructed
equipment, but a good thump will usually detect it.

IOW dry joints develop over time, as I said. you could buy an amp
that works fine when you purchase it, then dry joints appear some
time later in normal use

A dry joint is a solder joint not properly done in the first place.
https://www.nextpcb.com/blog/dry-solder-joint
They are rare on PCBs which, these days, are usually soldered
automatically. They are usually caused by too low a soldering iron
temperature, not enough flux, or most likely by trying to solder to a
contaminated surface or component.

yes, I know but solder joints that fail, for whatever reason, are called
dry joints.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

that will not necessarily guarantee you won't have trouble with it
later. amps made in the 70's or 80's are now 50 odd years old! who in
their right mind would buy a 50 year old amp and expect to have no
problems with it, especially when amps only a few years old fail for
all sorts of reasons. semiconductors can fail, as I said in my
original post, and are far more likely to do so having had 50 years
of use.

Some of the old stuff is a lot more reliable than recent units, they
didn't penny pinch as much in those days.

yes. but I wouldn't recommend anyone buy equipment 50 years old, as
noddy was asking about

Semiconductors rarely fail if used withing their design limits, they
do fail in cheap crap where cost are cut by running components outside
their design specs.

or often due to poor circuit design.

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment,
lol. but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should
be OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling
from use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on
contacts, etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the
tracks wear on the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen for
crackles, replacement is a minor job.

but who is going to buy an amp that needs to have the pots replaced,
unless they're an electronics technical person who can do it
themselves, which noddy is not, as he has amply shown in this ng.
also, the person selling the amp may have just squirted the pots to
keep them going ok for a while.

Any tech that charges more than half an hour to replace a pot is ripping
you off. More than one pot, add 10 minutes would be more than adequate.
Cost of a new pot ~$2. Worthwhile if it is good gear at a reasonable price.

**That would be a gross over-simplification. Some pots cost more. MUCH
more. Some pots are VERY difficult to change. Most pots in equipment
that is more than (say) 15 years old, are NLA. Cleaning may be the only
solution.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
Corrosion on contacts will not occur if it has been kept in a
reasonable environment.

which many are not, or maybe used in high humidity locations.

If it's not a bottom feeding el cheapo device the plating should handle
most indoor environments.

**Trust me: It doesn't.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
Dry joints do not develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken
joints can occur from heat cycling in badly designed or constructed
equipment, but a good thump will usually detect it.

IOW dry joints develop over time, as I said. you could buy an amp that
works fine when you purchase it, then dry joints appear some time
later in normal use

A dry joint is a solder joint not properly done in the first place.

**A solder joint that has been subject to long-term high temperatures
(ca. 150 degrees C) can fail, despite the joint being done correctly.

https://www.nextpcb.com/blog/dry-solder-joint
They are rare on PCBs which, these days, are usually soldered
automatically. They are usually caused by too low a soldering iron
temperature, not enough flux, or most likely by trying to solder to a
contaminated surface or component.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

that will not necessarily guarantee you won't have trouble with it
later. amps made in the 70's or 80's are now 50 odd years old! who in
their right mind would buy a 50 year old amp and expect to have no
problems with it, especially when amps only a few years old fail for
all sorts of reasons. semiconductors can fail, as I said in my
original post, and are far more likely to do so having had 50 years of
use.

Some of the old stuff is a lot more reliable than recent units, they
didn't penny pinch as much in those days. Semiconductors rarely fail if
used withing their design limits, they do fail in cheap crap where cost
are cut by running components outside their design specs.

**Yes and, no. Electrolytic capacitors aside, plastic pack transistors
used in 1970s vintage equipment frequently fail. By the early 1980s,
transistor manufacturers had learned how to make reliable plastic pack
transistors. That said, many quality manufacturers used metal can
transistors during the 1970s. Those devices are likely to outlast our Sun.

Modern manufacturers of quality equipment tend not to penny-pinch.
Budget manufacturers do what they have always done - penny-pench.

[Xeno]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment,
lol. but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should
be OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling
from use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on
contacts, etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the
tracks wear on the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen
for crackles, replacement is a minor job.

but who is going to buy an amp that needs to have the pots replaced,
unless they're an electronics technical person who can do it
themselves, which noddy is not, as he has amply shown in this ng.
also, the person selling the amp may have just squirted the pots to
keep them going ok for a while.

Any tech that charges more than half an hour to replace a pot is
ripping you off. More than one pot, add 10 minutes would be more than
adequate. Cost of a new pot ~$2. Worthwhile if it is good gear at a
reasonable price.

**That would be a gross over-simplification. Some pots cost more. MUCH
more. Some pots are VERY difficult to change. Most pots in equipment
that is more than (say) 15 years old, are NLA. Cleaning may be the only
solution.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
Corrosion on contacts will not occur if it has been kept in a
reasonable environment.

which many are not, or maybe used in high humidity locations.

If it's not a bottom feeding el cheapo device the plating should
handle most indoor environments.

**Trust me: It doesn't.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
Dry joints do not develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken
joints can occur from heat cycling in badly designed or constructed
equipment, but a good thump will usually detect it.

IOW dry joints develop over time, as I said. you could buy an amp
that works fine when you purchase it, then dry joints appear some
time later in normal use

A dry joint is a solder joint not properly done in the first place.

**A solder joint that has been subject to long-term high temperatures
(ca. 150 degrees C) can fail, despite the joint being done correctly.

Seem them fail in high frequency environments too. Basically a form of
fatigue failure.

Post by Trevor Wilson

https://www.nextpcb.com/blog/dry-solder-joint
They are rare on PCBs which, these days, are usually soldered
automatically. They are usually caused by too low a soldering iron
temperature, not enough flux, or most likely by trying to solder to a
contaminated surface or component.

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0
The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

that will not necessarily guarantee you won't have trouble with it
later. amps made in the 70's or 80's are now 50 odd years old! who in
their right mind would buy a 50 year old amp and expect to have no
problems with it, especially when amps only a few years old fail for
all sorts of reasons. semiconductors can fail, as I said in my
original post, and are far more likely to do so having had 50 years
of use.

Some of the old stuff is a lot more reliable than recent units, they
didn't penny pinch as much in those days. Semiconductors rarely fail
if used withing their design limits, they do fail in cheap crap where
cost are cut by running components outside their design specs.

**Yes and, no. Electrolytic capacitors aside, plastic pack transistors
used in 1970s vintage equipment frequently fail. By the early 1980s,
transistor manufacturers had learned how to make reliable plastic pack
transistors. That said, many quality manufacturers used metal can
transistors during the 1970s. Those devices are likely to outlast our Sun.
Modern manufacturers of quality equipment tend not to penny-pinch.
Budget manufacturers do what they have always done - penny-pench.

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment, lol.
but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should be
OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling from
use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on contacts,
etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the tracks wear on
the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen for
crackles, replacement is a minor job.

**It MAY be an easy job. Or not. It depends on the amp. Additionally and
more seriously, is if the pots are still available. Substituting pots is
often quite difficult. Some modern amps use very high quality pots,
using plastic tracks. IME, they can last a VERY long time. That said,
the cost to the manufacturer of such a pot is in the order of US$20.00
or so. A low cost pot can cost US$0.20. Guess which one is most often
chosen? These are the ones I have in my (pre)amp:

https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/potentiometers/2346617?cm_mmc=AU-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_AU_Pmax_LocalStock_0923-_--_-&matchtype=&&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuNTygvi9hAMVMKlmAh174Qc2EAQYBiABEgIEXvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds


Corrosion on contacts will not

Post by Keithr0
occur if it has been kept in a reasonable environment.

**Only if the switch contacts are gold plated. Otherwise, they will
suffer, regardless of the environment.

Dry joints do not

Post by Keithr0
develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken joints can occur from
heat cycling in badly designed or constructed equipment, but a good
thump will usually detect it.

**Yep.

Post by Keithr0
The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

**Obviously.

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment,
lol. but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should
be OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling
from use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on
contacts, etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the
tracks wear on the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen for
crackles, replacement is a minor job.

**It MAY be an easy job. Or not. It depends on the amp. Additionally
and more seriously, is if the pots are still available. Substituting
pots is often quite difficult.

yep

Post by Trevor Wilson
Some modern amps use very high quality pots, using plastic tracks.
IME, they can last a VERY long time. That said, the cost to the
manufacturer of such a pot is in the order of US$20.00 or so. A low
cost pot can cost US$0.20. Guess which one is most often chosen? These
https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/potentiometers/2346617?cm_mmc=AU-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_AU_Pmax_LocalStock_0923-_--_-&matchtype=&&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuNTygvi9hAMVMKlmAh174Qc2EAQYBiABEgIEXvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Post by Keithr0
 Corrosion on contacts will not occur if it has been kept in a
reasonable environment.

**Only if the switch contacts are gold plated. Otherwise, they will
suffer, regardless of the environment.

exactly

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Keithr0
 Dry joints do not develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken
joints can occur from heat cycling in badly designed or constructed
equipment, but a good thump will usually detect it.

**Yep.

poor soldering is the cause of dry joints, but there's no dry joint
until the joint fails. while there's still conductivity it's not a dry
joint.

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Keithr0
The thing is to check it before buying or get someone who knows what
they are doing to check it for you.

**Obviously.

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Keithr0

Post by Mighty Mouse
not a good idea buying 40 or 50 year old electronic equipment,
lol. but his budget is too low for a decent HiFi sound system new.

The electrolytic capacitors would be suspect, but the rest should
be OK if it has been kept in a reasonable environment, and not abused.

not necessarily. with the repetitive cycle of heating and cooling
from use dry joints develop, semiconductors fail, corrosion on
contacts, etc., and amps that old have mechanical controls. the
tracks wear on the pots and the shaft lube dries out. lots of things.

Pots are easy to check, just wind them from end to end and listen for
crackles, replacement is a minor job.

**It MAY be an easy job. Or not. It depends on the amp. Additionally
and more seriously, is if the pots are still available. Substituting
pots is often quite difficult.

yep

Post by Trevor Wilson
Some modern amps use very high quality pots, using plastic tracks.
IME, they can last a VERY long time. That said, the cost to the
manufacturer of such a pot is in the order of US$20.00 or so. A low
cost pot can cost US$0.20. Guess which one is most often chosen? These
https://au.rs-online.com/web/p/potentiometers/2346617?cm_mmc=AU-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_AU_Pmax_LocalStock_0923-_--_-&matchtype=&&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIuNTygvi9hAMVMKlmAh174Qc2EAQYBiABEgIEXvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Post by Keithr0
 Corrosion on contacts will not occur if it has been kept in a
reasonable environment.

**Only if the switch contacts are gold plated. Otherwise, they will
suffer, regardless of the environment.

exactly

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Keithr0
 Dry joints do not develop, they exist from poor soldering, broken
joints can occur from heat cycling in badly designed or constructed
equipment, but a good thump will usually detect it.

**Yep.

poor soldering is the cause of dry joints, but there's no dry joint
until the joint fails. while there's still conductivity it's not a dry
joint.

**I've seen a variety of dry joints that have lasted for decades. Until
they don't. Usually, it's due to a contaminant on the lead/s of a device
and the solder does not properly 'wet' the joint. As I stated,
sometimes, the device can function normally for many years and then the
corrosion finally causes a failure. Usually though, it's due to
vibration or high temperatures that causes a gradual failure of the
joint. 150 degrees C over a decade or so will cause damage to most
solder joints.

[Daryl]

Post by alvey
alvey
And what teenage boy *wouldn't* want an old, 2nd hand music player
that takes up half a room and produces seriously shithouse sound for
his birthday?

My niece is into vinyl. She loves 70s music: T.Rex, Ramones, Daddy Cool
et cetera.

Its popularity has increased, I've seen turntables advertised on TV
recently.

[Keithr0]

Post by alvey
alvey
And what teenage boy *wouldn't* want an old, 2nd hand music player
that takes up half a room and produces seriously shithouse sound for
his birthday?

Get with the program granddad, all the cool kids are into vinyl these days.

My niece is into vinyl. She loves 70s music: T.Rex, Ramones, Daddy Cool
et cetera.

One of my grandsons has a large collection of Queen stuff - on vinyl. He
is willing to spend real money on rare items, his brother is into vinyl
too but prefers Slipknot.

[Noddy]

Post by Keithr0
One of my grandsons has a large collection of Queen stuff - on vinyl. He
is willing to spend real money on rare items, his brother is into vinyl
too but prefers Slipknot.

My kid is into 60's & 70's pop/rock. Beatles, Stones, Credence, Pink
Floyd, and the Doors. Particularly The Doors. He loves vinyl as there's
something about it he finds intriguing, and he decorates his bedroom
walls with the album covers.

[Keithr0]

Post by Noddy

Post by Keithr0
One of my grandsons has a large collection of Queen stuff - on vinyl.
He is willing to spend real money on rare items, his brother is into
vinyl too but prefers Slipknot.

My kid is into 60's & 70's pop/rock. Beatles, Stones, Credence, Pink
Floyd, and the Doors. Particularly The Doors. He loves vinyl as there's
something about it he finds intriguing, and he decorates his bedroom
walls with the album covers.

I met the bass player from the Doors once in a pub on the south coast of
Ireland. He was living in a small village there at the time (about 20
years ago).

[Noddy]

Post by Keithr0

Post by Noddy

Post by Keithr0
One of my grandsons has a large collection of Queen stuff - on vinyl.
He is willing to spend real money on rare items, his brother is into
vinyl too but prefers Slipknot.

My kid is into 60's & 70's pop/rock. Beatles, Stones, Credence, Pink
Floyd, and the Doors. Particularly The Doors. He loves vinyl as
there's something about it he finds intriguing, and he decorates his
bedroom walls with the album covers.

I met the bass player from the Doors once in a pub on the south coast of
Ireland. He was living in a small village there at the time (about 20
years ago).

Yeah, I don't think you did.

The Doors were one of the few groups who never actually had a bass
player. The majority of their bass lines were played on an electric
keyboard bass by their keyboard player Ray Manzarek who as far as I'm
aware never lived in Ireland. Whatever bass parts he didn't play were
performed by a session musician in the studio.

[Xeno]

Post by Noddy

Post by Keithr0

Post by Noddy

Post by Keithr0
One of my grandsons has a large collection of Queen stuff - on vinyl.
He is willing to spend real money on rare items, his brother is into
vinyl too but prefers Slipknot.

My kid is into 60's & 70's pop/rock. Beatles, Stones, Credence, Pink
Floyd, and the Doors. Particularly The Doors. He loves vinyl as
there's something about it he finds intriguing, and he decorates his
bedroom walls with the album covers.

I met the bass player from the Doors once in a pub on the south coast of
Ireland. He was living in a small village there at the time (about 20
years ago).

Yeah, I don't think you did.
The Doors were one of the few groups who never actually had a bass
player. The majority of their bass lines were played on an electric
keyboard bass by their keyboard player Ray Manzarek who as far as I'm
aware never lived in Ireland. Whatever bass parts he didn't play were
performed by a session musician in the studio.

A bullshit artist exposing another’s bullshit tale, incredible!

____
Xeno

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a new
stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based stereo that
I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to be a bit
unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He basically just wants
a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no interest in CD's or tapes, and
with that in mind I have 2 questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither is
he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something that
sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system that could
be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out for?
I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha hifi
systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if something
of that nature (or anything else you could recommend) would be a better
bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

**There is nothing available, new, for less than around $500.00 that is
worth bothering with. JB Hi Fi specialise is selling utter rubbish.

Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second hand
stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but turntables are
generally operated under a very low stress environment and most can be
expected to last many decades.

Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and Dual
(Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer exists and there
are aspect of some models that can make repair impossible. For instance:

The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4 addressed that
problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt drive unit and drive belts
are easily available, but the speed control belt is not. Dual also made
a number of direct drive units and they are generally pretty decent. I
would caution again the much older, rim drive Duals, as the idler can be
very difficult to find. Motors are easy to rebuild. That said, the
mechanisms are complicated (they're full auto) and are of such an age
that a full strip down and re-lube will be required. OTOH, the 505 (and
others in that range) are semi-auto and far simpler to sort out.

Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I presently have
11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart them up a bit and
re-sell. The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC step-down
transformer (about $35.00) to work in Oz. The motors in Denons are works
of art. Smooth as butter and they last forever. They come in manual,
semi-auto and full auto. Because they're mechanisms are simpler than
most, even their full auto models are a good buy.

Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are generally a
bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their popularity with the
disco people. Still, they are quite decent for the most part. Beware:
Technics have built some real shit in their low end models.

Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but excellent
performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one piece, magnesium
casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid tantalum. Available new and used
(the Rega Plannar 3 has been around for 40 years).

Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus hours
please). 02 9589 1001

I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

[Trevor Wilson]

On 19/02/2024 8:07 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
Because they're mechanisms are simpler than

Post by Trevor Wilson
most, even their full auto models are a good buy.

**Oh fuck. Is English my second language. That should read:

"....their mechanisms are....."

Smacks head.

[Keithr0]

The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC step-down transformer
(about $35.00) to work in Oz.

If they are Japanese domestic items, they will be 100vac rather than 110
but running 10% high doesn't usually cause problems these day.

If anybody needs a big 110v stepdown transformer, I've got one gathering
dust in the garage.

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Keithr0

The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC step-down transformer
(about $35.00) to work in Oz.

If they are Japanese domestic items, they will be 100vac rather than 110
but running 10% high doesn't usually cause problems these day.
If anybody needs a big 110v stepdown transformer, I've got one gathering
dust in the garage.

**You are, of course, correct. It was a typo on my part. The
transformers I purchase are 100VAC types. And they aren't big. They
don't need to be.

[alvey]

Post by Trevor Wilson
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

You're already doing that.


alvey

[Noddy]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a
new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based stereo
that I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to be a bit
unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He basically just
wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no interest in CD's or
tapes, and with that in mind I have 2 questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither is
he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something that
sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system that
could be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out
for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha
hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if
something of that nature (or anything else you could recommend) would
be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

**There is nothing available, new, for less than around $500.00 that is
worth bothering with. JB Hi Fi specialise is selling utter rubbish.
Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second hand
stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but turntables are
generally operated under a very low stress environment and most can be
expected to last many decades.
Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and Dual
(Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer exists and there
The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4 addressed that
problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt drive unit and drive belts
are easily available, but the speed control belt is not. Dual also made
a number of direct drive units and they are generally pretty decent. I
would caution again the much older, rim drive Duals, as the idler can be
very difficult to find. Motors are easy to rebuild. That said, the
mechanisms are complicated (they're full auto) and are of such an age
that a full strip down and re-lube will be required. OTOH, the 505 (and
others in that range) are semi-auto and far simpler to sort out.
Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I presently have
11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart them up a bit and
re-sell. The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC step-down
transformer (about $35.00) to work in Oz. The motors in Denons are works
of art. Smooth as butter and they last forever. They come in manual,
semi-auto and full auto. Because they're mechanisms are simpler than
most, even their full auto models are a good buy.
Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are generally a
bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their popularity with the
Technics have built some real shit in their low end models.
Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but excellent
performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one piece, magnesium
casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid tantalum. Available new and used
(the Rega Plannar 3 has been around for 40 years).
Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus hours
please). 02 9589 1001
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response is
exactly why I asked you :)

I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what I can
find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything specific that
needs further investigation.

Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[lindsay]

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson
Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second hand
stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but turntables are
generally operated under a very low stress environment and most can be
expected to last many decades.
Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and Dual
(Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer exists and
there are aspect of some models that can make repair impossible. For
The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4 addressed
that problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt drive unit and
drive belts are easily available, but the speed control belt is not.
Dual also made a number of direct drive units and they are generally
pretty decent. I would caution again the much older, rim drive Duals,
as the idler can be very difficult to find. Motors are easy to
rebuild. That said, the mechanisms are complicated (they're full auto)
and are of such an age that a full strip down and re-lube will be
required. OTOH, the 505 (and others in that range) are semi-auto and
far simpler to sort out.
Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I presently
have 11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart them up a bit
and re-sell. The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC
step-down transformer (about $35.00) to work in Oz. The motors in
Denons are works of art. Smooth as butter and they last forever. They
come in manual, semi-auto and full auto. Because they're mechanisms
are simpler than most, even their full auto models are a good buy.
Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are generally a
bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their popularity with the
Technics have built some real shit in their low end models.
Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but excellent
performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one piece, magnesium
casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid tantalum. Available new and
used (the Rega Plannar 3 has been around for 40 years).
Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus hours
please). 02 9589 1001
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response is
exactly why I asked you :)
I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what I can
find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything specific that
needs further investigation.
Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

FWIW, I have mums Technics SL-D3 XA which I've been meaning to sell. Mum
bought it home from a holiday to Japan. Has an Aussie voltage switch
under the platten. Was working fine last time she used it, and I
recently plugged it in, lifted the tone arm, and around she went. :-)
Seems in good nick, minimal scuffing to the cover. No idea what the
cartridge and belt are like, so no guarantees. Trevor suggested it may
be worth up to $300, happy to let it go for $200 for you. I need the
shelf space :-)

https://imgur.com/a/OuzlhP1

Mig bottle not included. :-D

Post by Noddy
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[lindsay]

Post by lindsay

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response is
exactly why I asked you :)
I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what I
can find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything specific
that needs further investigation.
Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

FWIW, I have mums Technics SL-D3 XA which I've been meaning to sell.
Mum bought it home from a holiday to Japan. Has an Aussie voltage
switch under the platten. Was working fine last time she used it, and
I recently plugged it in, lifted the tone arm, and around she went.
:-) Seems in good nick, minimal scuffing to the cover. No idea what
the cartridge and belt are like, so no guarantees. Trevor suggested it
may be worth up to $300, happy to let it go for $200 for you. I need
the shelf space :-)
https://imgur.com/a/OuzlhP1

Sounds like a deal to me. I'll take it thanks. I'm not in a hurry, so
I'll message you in a day or so and make a time to collect it.

Cool.!! Please note, i'm off to NZ on Sunday for 2 weeks, so it's this
week, or 3 weeks from now... :-)

Post by lindsay
Mig bottle not included. :-D

Bastard.

Been called a lot worse, like late for dinner :-)

[Noddy]

Sounds like a deal to me. I'll take it thanks. I'm not in a hurry, so
I'll message you in a day or so and make a time to collect it.

Cool.!!  Please note, i'm off to NZ on Sunday for 2 weeks, so it's this
week, or 3 weeks from now... :-)

I've got stuff on this week, so enjoy your trip and I'll see you when
you get back.

[lindsay]

Post by Noddy

Sounds like a deal to me. I'll take it thanks. I'm not in a hurry, so
I'll message you in a day or so and make a time to collect it.

Cool.!!  Please note, i'm off to NZ on Sunday for 2 weeks, so it's
this week, or 3 weeks from now... :-)

I've got stuff on this week, so enjoy your trip and I'll see you when
you get back.

no worries... one thing I just remembered, it has an old power plug on
the end.. looks like Bakerlite. Would have been fitted when it was
bought back from Japan. You may want to swap it.. just letting you know.

[Noddy]

Post by lindsay

Post by Noddy

Sounds like a deal to me. I'll take it thanks. I'm not in a hurry,
so I'll message you in a day or so and make a time to collect it.

Cool.!!  Please note, i'm off to NZ on Sunday for 2 weeks, so it's
this week, or 3 weeks from now... :-)

I've got stuff on this week, so enjoy your trip and I'll see you when
you get back.

no worries... one thing I just remembered, it has an old power plug on
the end.. looks like Bakerlite. Would have been fitted when it was
bought back from Japan. You may want to swap it.. just letting you know.

No wukkas. I'll sort it out.

[Noddy]

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like a
new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based
stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to
be a bit unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He
basically just wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no
interest in CD's or tapes, and with that in mind I have 2 questions
for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither
is he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want something
that sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of a system
that could be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be
all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out
for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha
hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if
something of that nature (or anything else you could recommend)
would be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

**There is nothing available, new, for less than around $500.00 that
is worth bothering with. JB Hi Fi specialise is selling utter rubbish.
Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second hand
stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but turntables are
generally operated under a very low stress environment and most can
be expected to last many decades.
Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and Dual
(Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer exists and
there are aspect of some models that can make repair impossible. For
The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4 addressed
that problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt drive unit and
drive belts are easily available, but the speed control belt is not.
Dual also made a number of direct drive units and they are generally
pretty decent. I would caution again the much older, rim drive Duals,
as the idler can be very difficult to find. Motors are easy to
rebuild. That said, the mechanisms are complicated (they're full
auto) and are of such an age that a full strip down and re-lube will
be required. OTOH, the 505 (and others in that range) are semi-auto
and far simpler to sort out.
Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I presently
have 11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart them up a bit
and re-sell. The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC
step-down transformer (about $35.00) to work in Oz. The motors in
Denons are works of art. Smooth as butter and they last forever. They
come in manual, semi-auto and full auto. Because they're mechanisms
are simpler than most, even their full auto models are a good buy.
Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are generally a
bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their popularity with the
Technics have built some real shit in their low end models.
Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but
excellent performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one
piece, magnesium casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid tantalum.
Available new and used (the Rega Plannar 3 has been around for 40
years).
Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus hours
please). 02 9589 1001
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response is
exactly why I asked you :)
I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what I can
find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything specific that
needs further investigation.
Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

**In case you didn't pick up on what I said, I have several Denons that
will be for sale, along with a couple of Direct drive Duals and a couple
of Technics. Except for the Denons, they're all 230VAC models. The
Denons are 100VAC versions, but I can supply suitable step-down
transformers at cost price.
I can post photos if you wish.

No worries. I did notice, and I see Lindsay's just chimed in with a
Technic for sale. Given that he's closer I'll grab that from him, but
I'll deal with you if there's anything I need for it.

Thanks again for the help.


--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Noddy

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd like
a new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500 based
stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but it's started to
be a bit unreliable and he'd love something a bit better. He
basically just wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and has no
interest in CD's or tapes, and with that in mind I have 2 questions
for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want cheap
rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say neither
is he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just want
something that sounds reasonable. If you had any recommendations of
a system that could be put together on a budget of a thousand bucks
I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today is
worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to look out
for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha
hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and wondered if
something of that nature (or anything else you could recommend)
would be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

**There is nothing available, new, for less than around $500.00 that
is worth bothering with. JB Hi Fi specialise is selling utter rubbish.
Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second
hand stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but turntables
are generally operated under a very low stress environment and most
can be expected to last many decades.
Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and Dual
(Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer exists and
there are aspect of some models that can make repair impossible. For
The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4 addressed
that problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt drive unit and
drive belts are easily available, but the speed control belt is not.
Dual also made a number of direct drive units and they are generally
pretty decent. I would caution again the much older, rim drive
Duals, as the idler can be very difficult to find. Motors are easy
to rebuild. That said, the mechanisms are complicated (they're full
auto) and are of such an age that a full strip down and re-lube will
be required. OTOH, the 505 (and others in that range) are semi-auto
and far simpler to sort out.
Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I presently
have 11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart them up a bit
and re-sell. The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC
step-down transformer (about $35.00) to work in Oz. The motors in
Denons are works of art. Smooth as butter and they last forever.
They come in manual, semi-auto and full auto. Because they're
mechanisms are simpler than most, even their full auto models are a
good buy.
Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are generally
a bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their popularity with
the disco people. Still, they are quite decent for the most part.
Beware: Technics have built some real shit in their low end models.
Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but
excellent performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one
piece, magnesium casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid tantalum.
Available new and used (the Rega Plannar 3 has been around for 40
years).
Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus hours
please). 02 9589 1001
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response is
exactly why I asked you :)
I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what I
can find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything specific
that needs further investigation.
Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

**In case you didn't pick up on what I said, I have several Denons
that will be for sale, along with a couple of Direct drive Duals and a
couple of Technics. Except for the Denons, they're all 230VAC models.
The Denons are 100VAC versions, but I can supply suitable step-down
transformers at cost price.
I can post photos if you wish.

No worries. I did notice, and I see Lindsay's just chimed in with a
Technic for sale. Given that he's closer I'll grab that from him, but
I'll deal with you if there's anything I need for it.
Thanks again for the help.

**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model. Not
much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if something does.

[Noddy]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
No worries. I did notice, and I see Lindsay's just chimed in with a
Technic for sale. Given that he's closer I'll grab that from him, but
I'll deal with you if there's anything I need for it.
Thanks again for the help.

**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model. Not
much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if something does.

Cool. Now I just need an amp and some speakers :)

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
No worries. I did notice, and I see Lindsay's just chimed in with a
Technic for sale. Given that he's closer I'll grab that from him, but
I'll deal with you if there's anything I need for it.
Thanks again for the help.

**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model.
Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if
something does.

Cool. Now I just need an amp and some speakers :)

**Now you need to call me and discuss. Unfortunately, I sold a pair of
speakers last week that would have been perfect.

[Noddy]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
Cool. Now I just need an amp and some speakers :)

**Now you need to call me and discuss. Unfortunately, I sold a pair of
speakers last week that would have been perfect.

I'll give you a yell once I pick the turntable up from Lindsay.

[Trevor Wilson]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd
like a new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand 3500
based stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but it's
started to be a bit unreliable and he'd love something a bit
better. He basically just wants a turntable as he loves vinyl and
has no interest in CD's or tapes, and with that in mind I have 2
questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you would
recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't want
cheap rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I dare say
neither is he. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate. Just
want something that sounds reasonable. If you had any
recommendations of a system that could be put together on a
budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range today
is worth owning, could you recommend any second hand stuff to
look out for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage Marantz, Pioneer
or Yamaha hifi systems come up on Marketplace occasionally, and
wondered if something of that nature (or anything else you could
recommend) would be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

**There is nothing available, new, for less than around $500.00
that is worth bothering with. JB Hi Fi specialise is selling utter
rubbish.
Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second
hand stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but
turntables are generally operated under a very low stress
environment and most can be expected to last many decades.
Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and Dual
(Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer exists and
there are aspect of some models that can make repair impossible.
The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4
addressed that problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt drive
unit and drive belts are easily available, but the speed control
belt is not. Dual also made a number of direct drive units and
they are generally pretty decent. I would caution again the much
older, rim drive Duals, as the idler can be very difficult to
find. Motors are easy to rebuild. That said, the mechanisms are
complicated (they're full auto) and are of such an age that a full
strip down and re-lube will be required. OTOH, the 505 (and others
in that range) are semi-auto and far simpler to sort out.
Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I presently
have 11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart them up a
bit and re-sell. The downside is that they need a 230VAC - 110VAC
step-down transformer (about $35.00) to work in Oz. The motors in
Denons are works of art. Smooth as butter and they last forever.
They come in manual, semi-auto and full auto. Because they're
mechanisms are simpler than most, even their full auto models are
a good buy.
Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are
generally a bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their
popularity with the disco people. Still, they are quite decent for
the most part. Beware: Technics have built some real shit in their
low end models.
Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but
excellent performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one
piece, magnesium casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid tantalum.
Available new and used (the Rega Plannar 3 has been around for 40
years).
Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus
hours please). 02 9589 1001
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response
is exactly why I asked you :)
I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what I
can find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything
specific that needs further investigation.
Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

**In case you didn't pick up on what I said, I have several Denons
that will be for sale, along with a couple of Direct drive Duals and
a couple of Technics. Except for the Denons, they're all 230VAC
models. The Denons are 100VAC versions, but I can supply suitable
step-down transformers at cost price.
I can post photos if you wish.

No worries. I did notice, and I see Lindsay's just chimed in with a
Technic for sale. Given that he's closer I'll grab that from him, but
I'll deal with you if there's anything I need for it.
Thanks again for the help.

**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model.
Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if
something does.

err... no. SL-D3 is a direct drive

**Quite so. It's written right there on the front and the back.

[Smacks head]

[Maximus]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy

Post by Noddy

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Noddy
Hey Trev. Could use your help if you feel like offering it.
My kid's birthday is coming up in a couple of months and he'd
like a new stereo. He got a big kick out of his old Garrand
3500 based stereo that I talked about here some time ago, but
it's started to be a bit unreliable and he'd love something a
bit better. He basically just wants a turntable as he loves
vinyl and has no interest in CD's or tapes, and with that in
mind I have 2 questions for you.
Firstly, is there anything new on the market today that you
would recommend? I'm not looking for high end stuff, but don't
want cheap rubbish either. I'm not fussed about brands and I
dare say neither is he. It doesn't have to be anything
elaborate. Just want something that sounds reasonable. If you
had any recommendations of a system that could be put together
on a budget of a thousand bucks I'd be all ears.
Secondly, if you don't think new stuff in that price range
today is worth owning, could you recommend any second hand
stuff to look out for? I see the odd 70's or 80's vintage
Marantz, Pioneer or Yamaha hifi systems come up on Marketplace
occasionally, and wondered if something of that nature (or
anything else you could recommend) would be a better bet instead?
Appreciate any and all advice you may be able to offer.

**There is nothing available, new, for less than around $500.00
that is worth bothering with. JB Hi Fi specialise is selling
utter rubbish.
Which leaves with, IMO, the best value for money, quality second
hand stuff. Obviously, that presents it's own risks, but
turntables are generally operated under a very low stress
environment and most can be expected to last many decades.
Personally, the two brands I like most are Denon (Japan) and
Dual (Germany). Dual is difficult, as the company no longer
exists and there are aspect of some models that can make repair
The original Dual 505 was a fine turntable, but fitted with a
diabolically bad headshell. However, the Dual 505-2, 3, 4
addressed that problem quite effectively. The 505 was a belt
drive unit and drive belts are easily available, but the speed
control belt is not. Dual also made a number of direct drive
units and they are generally pretty decent. I would caution
again the much older, rim drive Duals, as the idler can be very
difficult to find. Motors are easy to rebuild. That said, the
mechanisms are complicated (they're full auto) and are of such
an age that a full strip down and re-lube will be required.
OTOH, the 505 (and others in that range) are semi-auto and far
simpler to sort out.
Denon make all direct drive units. I like them. A lot. I
presently have 11 of the suckers. I buy them in from Japan, tart
them up a bit and re-sell. The downside is that they need a
230VAC - 110VAC step-down transformer (about $35.00) to work in
Oz. The motors in Denons are works of art. Smooth as butter and
they last forever. They come in manual, semi-auto and full auto.
Because they're mechanisms are simpler than most, even their
full auto models are a good buy.
Technics are another, very popular, option. IMO, they are
generally a bit over-priced, compared to Denon, due to their
popularity with the disco people. Still, they are quite decent
for the most part. Beware: Technics have built some real shit in
their low end models.
Rega is a fascinating Pommy success story. Fully manual, but
excellent performers, built fairly cheaply. Tone arms are a one
piece, magnesium casting. Genius. Counterweight is solid
tantalum. Available new and used (the Rega Plannar 3 has been
around for 40 years).
Anyway, feel free to give me a call to discuss your needs (bus
hours please). 02 9589 1001
I am always happy to talk the hind leg off a mule about audio.

Thank you very much indeed Trevor. This kind of detailed response
is exactly why I asked you :)
I've taken all this on board and will keep my eye out & see what
I can find, and I'll give you a call if I come across anything
specific that needs further investigation.
Thanks again. It's greatly appreciated.

**In case you didn't pick up on what I said, I have several Denons
that will be for sale, along with a couple of Direct drive Duals
and a couple of Technics. Except for the Denons, they're all
230VAC models. The Denons are 100VAC versions, but I can supply
suitable step-down transformers at cost price.
I can post photos if you wish.

No worries. I did notice, and I see Lindsay's just chimed in with a
Technic for sale. Given that he's closer I'll grab that from him,
but I'll deal with you if there's anything I need for it.
Thanks again for the help.

**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model.
Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if
something does.

err... no. SL-D3 is a direct drive

**Quite so. It's written right there on the front and the back.

if it's Direct Drive it's NOT belt drive! surprised you don't know that

Post by Trevor Wilson
[Smacks head]

[Keithr0]

On 20/02/2024 10:19 am, Maximus wrote:

Uh oh yet another felix 'nym

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Keithr0
Uh oh yet another felix 'nym

wasn't meant to happen

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Trevor Wilson
**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model.
Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if
something does.

err... no. SL-D3 is a direct drive

**Quite so. It's written right there on the front and the back.
[Smacks head]

Yep, goes to show how much i've been paying notice.. i said it may
need a new belt... :-)  It's been sitting on the shelf with a dust rag
over it for at least a year, which is when I plugged it in, and took
the photos in preparation to advertise it.

It doesn't have a belt. it's a Direct Drive turntable

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Trevor Wilson
**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive
model. Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally
available if something does.

err... no. SL-D3 is a direct drive

**Quite so. It's written right there on the front and the back.
[Smacks head]

Yep, goes to show how much i've been paying notice.. i said it may
need a new belt... :-)  It's been sitting on the shelf with a dust
rag over it for at least a year, which is when I plugged it in, and
took the photos in preparation to advertise it.

It doesn't have a belt. it's a Direct Drive turntable

p.s. pull the platter off and you will see

[lindsay]

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Trevor Wilson
**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive model.
Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally available if
something does.

err... no. SL-D3 is a direct drive

**Quite so. It's written right there on the front and the back.
[Smacks head]

Yep, goes to show how much i've been paying notice.. i said it may
need a new belt... :-)  It's been sitting on the shelf with a dust rag
over it for at least a year, which is when I plugged it in, and took
the photos in preparation to advertise it.

It doesn't have a belt. it's a Direct Drive turntable

I know. Thats what I, and Trevor, said above. No need to correct us
after we've corrected ourselves.

[Mighty Mouse]

Post by lindsay

Post by Mighty Mouse

Post by Trevor Wilson

Post by Trevor Wilson
**No probs. Lindsay's turntable is a very simple, belt drive
model. Not much to go wrong and parts should be generally
available if something does.

err... no. SL-D3 is a direct drive

**Quite so. It's written right there on the front and the back.
[Smacks head]

Yep, goes to show how much i've been paying notice.. i said it may
need a new belt... :-)  It's been sitting on the shelf with a dust
rag over it for at least a year, which is when I plugged it in, and
took the photos in preparation to advertise it.

It doesn't have a belt. it's a Direct Drive turntable

I know. Thats what I, and Trevor, said above. No need to correct us
after we've corrected ourselves.

that was not obvious